Thursday, January 24, 2008

God's Will, Continued

Okay, where were we? Two and a half months is not the ideal pause for such a topic, so please accept my apologies. Surely it was God's will for me to write sooner (ha), but I am a mother to a 9 month old, and the holidays were in there too, so hey. :)

There are two main themes I want to address that seem central to grappling with this issue. First -God's foreknowledge and how it relates to His will, and second - God's orchestration of planet earth apart from people's wills.

Let's talk about foreknowledge. Personally, I've not understood why his foreknowledge and will are thought to go hand in hand. I see no problem with them being quite separable, both from a logical and scriptural standpoint. Knowing everything that will ever happen, and even having it written down sometimes in advance, doesn't mean God desires those things. In fact, many times they grieve him. God absolutely knew that a monarchy would be established in Israel, yet he didn't desire it. When they begged for a king, God comforted Samuel by assuring him that it was HE they were rejecting, not Samuel. God never intended for the nation to have a human king like their pagan neighbors, yet have a king they did. And God prophesied to Samuel that they would regret it. The Old Testament is full of prophecies of Israel's harlotry - things that God never wanted or willed but expressly forbade, and yet he accurately predicted they would happen.

It is full of prophecies about the Messiah's rejection and dozens of other particulars about his birth, life and death. And yet God did not desire that all of them would occur (note I do not say he didn't will for any of them to occur, just not all of them). E.g. Herod slaughtering the innocents in Bethlehem, Judas' betrayal (Jesus explicitly says that satan entered into Judas that night, so we know whose will was at work there), Israel's corporate rejection of the Messiah, etc. Yes, God knew about it. He told his prophets about it in advance, so that many would see and believe after the fact. But God does not desire evil - he does not ordain murder, betrayal, suicide, and eternal separation from himself. I think this is underscored by Christ's assignment of blame to the guilty parties. Yes the stumbling block must come, but WOE to the stumbling block! They were not puppets unthinkingly acting - their wills, as well as satan's, were involved and guilt was accordingly assigned. I could go on but I will hope these few examples make the point.

The second thing I want to address is God's moving and working in this world, apart from human or angelic will. I absolutely believe that God orchestrates and moves in circumstances, whether or not there is human willingness. Nebuchunezzar would have preferred not to graze in the field like a wild animal, Jonah would have preferred not to swallowed by the fish, I would prefer not to be living with my parents in Royse City!! But all of these events were brought about by God for the sanctification of his people. God moves on his own initiative, but I am convinced that the response, the posture of the heart, is left up to the individual human soul.

Prime example - Rob and I have had a very rough year where it felt like every door was slammed in our face, like everything we tried failed, and yet I finally begin to see God's hand in this. There is so much he is bringing up in our hearts, much bigger issues than the surface discomfort. And yet I am quite aware that we still have choice. What I do with this season is my choice. I can humble myself and cooperate with the Lord as he dredges my heart NOW, while the muck is up on the surface due to some suffering, or I can resist and take another lap around the mountain. Because God is so good, I suspect he would bring me back around to the same crossroads at a later time, though through different circumstances. You know how he is!! But I would have a choice then, too.

So I suppose I should have said in the first blog that God is unwilling to overthrow a human heart when it comes to his work in that heart, when it comes to his taking up residence in that heart, when it comes to his will for that heart. He is the consummate gentleman in that respect. I can't think of once instance in Scripture where he forced a knee to bow (tho the day is coming!), where he barreled into a human heart to call it home. He disciplines, he strips, he chastises, but isn't the response always ours?

The heart is where free will reigns in the most terrible sense. Nebuchunezzar chose humility. Most of the kings of Israel didn't. Jonah finally chose obedience. Most of the Jewish religious leaders in Jesus' day didn't. The jury is still out on me - I don't care to see my record to date. In all of these cases, more lives are affected than just the person with the choice. And that is the awful point.

God has ordained that our free will counts, and it has a domino effect on this planet. Countless people have said no to his overtures today. Some brazenly, others by procrastination, others by being too busy to hear what is asked of them. You and I are affected by each other's disobediences, not to mention the lost world. Here God's will is thwarted. :( Not to mention the unspeakable evil chosen by unbelievers, inspired by satan himself, inflicted on lost and saved alike.

I am not a theologian and for some this logic is too simple. But it seems to me that if a theology is so sophisticated that it no longer makes common sense, something may be wrong. Does it look like God's will is accomplished all the time, in your own heart or in this wicked world, based on what he has revealed as his will? Is the view of an all-controlling God, arms folded in utter pleasure with all that goes on (since everything is happening according to plan) - is this view consistent with the God of Scripture who weeps, becomes furious, regrets creating mankind, compares himself to a jilted lover? If not, reexamining the issue may be worth your time.

Finally, I want to clarify a few specifics from the last blog. Some of these have been mentioned to me, others haven't but deserve clarification anyway.

1) The title of the last blog was meant to be inflammatory :). I am, of course, not exactly sure how often God's will is accomplished, but I am certain that it is not always accomplished.

2) Notice that I did not attempt to say under which circumstances we could discern whether a particular event is God's will, human will, or satanic will. I did not say that bad things are from the devil, good things are from God, etc. etc. Suffering and death are undoubtedly sometimes given from the hand of God, and they are sometimes just as surely brought upon by determined human stupidity or by satan's unquenchable thirst for agony and destruction. Similarly, prosperity and blessing are equally up for grabs. They can be gifts from God, the products of human drive and greed, or distractions happily bestowed by satan. My point is only this - we err when we assume that whatever happens, happens because God desires it. I make no attempt to categorize or characterize the things God brings v. the things satan brings v. the things we bring upon ourselves. Trying to make blanket judgments like that is as much an error as believing that everything that happens on earth is God's will.

3) A possible exception to the free will rule - God's judgment. Certainly that is a time where God overthrows free will and executes justice. I suspect that the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah would have preferred not to be incinerated, but their wills were overridden in that judgment. In the last blog I said God was reluctant to override free will. Not totally unwilling, but reluctant. He waits and waits and waits. He gives time and opportunity for repentance. He seems to bring wrath as a last resort. But at some point, he does says game over.

However, looking at judgment in a different light you could say that it is the ultimate honoring of free will. In a very real sense, judgment is a granting of a person's choice. You don't want to live with God, would rather do it on your own? You are granted that wish for eternity. Hell is utter separation from God and all of his goodness. The devil, his angels, and all humans who have rejected their Creator and Savior are allowed to live apart from him, which they chose. What could be more hellish?

In conclusion, I'm positive that I don't have it all figured out, but I do feel confident that this view of free will comes the closest to reconciling the whole of the scriptures with God's character revealed in them.

Lord, help us see you as you are!

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

How refreshing and exciting to see such words in print. I've known that in my gut for so long but could have never expressed like you did. I've actually been kept from a deep and personal relationship with the Lord of the universe by that very theology. If what has happened to me was God's will, then why would I ever want a relationship with someone who authored such horror. We, even in our broken down humanity, have laws against such incredible brutality. How in the world can we assign to God what we as humans won't tolerate? Well done!!!!!!!the dq

Anonymous said...

I get Sara's point: Angels and humans have God-given wills capable of stunning impact in His Creation. And often both our will itself & its impact is destructive, which is the opposite of God's very character & purpose (or will) in Creation. So in that sense, I agree that we shouldn't settle for viewing sin, evil, suffering as essentially or ultimately coming from God's hand (and thus being His will)!
God may orchestrate pain for judgment or for discipline, but I don't see Scripture teaching that all pain is necessarily God's will.

I appreciate Sara's emphasis that He allows (wills) angels & humans to have wills of our own of REAL significance...not equal in power to His but equally REAL, and thus really significant.

I think a main implication of all this is that we shouldn't settle for an apathetic, passive approach to relationship with God (& life in general) b/c we believe that God is essentially always orchestrating whatever adversity we encounter.
If where one is at in their view of God is that there's no point in really pursuing & persevering for anything with Him, b/c He's as likely to give (or "will") a rock or snake, then they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Father heart of God.

Btw--I'm wrestling through plenty of Father God misunderstanding I have had for years and still have myself. So I don't claim to have relationship with God mastered, nor sufficient understanding of the interplay of His will and our (& angels') will.

Lastly for now, I really appreciate Sara's point that although God does judge, He is amazingly patient before He does!!! He gives us real power to RESPOND (or not) to Him...and thus to impact our own lives and others. It's a wonder beyond human reason that, in this Age at least, He allows us that freeom to violate and compromise His Life-giving, Life-promoting will.

As Sara has labored so well to help us consider, I think I'm in agreement with her that much of the time it's indeed my own will or the will of another person (or even angel) being done on earth...NOT His will as it is done in heaven.

Thank You Jesus!!! for the model & hope of a daily relationship with God in which our wills can actually welcome & receive the LIFE-giving, initiating will of God into our lives.
Thank You Jesus for teaching us that God is "Our FATHER...who is in heaven"
(BTW- Why does Jesus point out where the Father is? I think b/c if He's reigning here now, if His will is fully exercised here now, then why pray to Him?! Obviously He's NOT very powerful.)
But Jesus continues, "Praise Your Name! Bring Your Kingdom!"
(reason: Your Reign is not here now like it is in heaven)
"Accomplish Your Will on earth, like it is in heaven!"
(reason: Your will is not being accomplished here now like it is in heaven).

FACT--The War of the Wills was won at Calvary! But we must fight the Battles of the Wills until Jesus returns to claim His victory prize.

OPPORTUNITY--Exercise our wills to invite His will in & through our lives. And by His grace, endure & persevere the blood & guts of the Battles of Wills that rage around us "until He comes, to whom it belongs to rule" and "[His] will (truly) be done on earth as it is in heaven."

Anonymous said...

Reassurance: If I left out a modifier here & there that might give the impression that I don't really think God is Sovereign, or that Jesus isn't ruling at all on/over the earth now...I do & He is!!!

Jamie Bostick said...

WOW, what an awakening moment, what a blessful moment, your words are right on with who God is and what He is all about.
We all want to blame someone and for the most part it is God... unfortunately, unfortunately he gets the blame for so much, when we are given the free will and we go against his being, his word, that is when Satan enters like a snake, slithering into our weakness, also knowing our weakness and that is when we spiral... then blame God vs. Satan... and Satan loves this, he loves how we blame God!!!! When in fact it was us that let our guard down and allowed Satan to enter.. and it is not just one person that gets affected by one bad deed it involves others just like a domino effect, just like a domino effect!!! WOW!!!!!!! I am so happy to be able to understand this point Sara is making, a month ago perhaps I could not, if not less than that!

Anonymous said...

Ok, I'm tracking with you on the foreknowledge part. And those things that you so clearly expound on are how I have always seen God's foreknowledge. God is God and can read us like a ten cent novel. We are so predictable, even to one another, so God has no problem saying what will happen in the future. He is God! He sure do know a lot more'n I does!!!
And your other point about how God doesn't desire for human history to play out like it does fits perfectly with your view of God's will. Yes, He desires for all of us to live differently than how our lives have turned out, but it isn't a perfect world anymore. We have free will, and everytime someone exercises that free will it affects our own life and at least those with whom we have contact and relationships, if not the whole world. The ripple effect of our acting out of our free will is probably much greater than we think; extending far beyond the immediate realms of influence that we each have and certainly extending to later generations with God only foreknows what implications on our children, grandchildren, others children and grandchildren, etc. This is a very sobering thought.

Actually, the whole of your blog has brought me to a place where I am in tears. I think I'll go walk in the woods and have a good long talk with God. I am in tears because I have spent my life knowing God, saved at 5 years old. I am now 52 and have spent my life going around the mountain. Yes, there has been great woundedness which has hampered me all along the way. Yes, I have an enemy called satan who has used every wound to try and get me to give up and turn completely from God and the hope that is Christ Jesus. But God has always been with me so strongly, speaking to my heart in so many tender and personal ways, and yet I have refused Him. Whether it be out of fear or anger or whatever, it basically boils down to this, (pay attention dq!),I have known the truth, not just the head knowledge, but deep in my soul, at the heart level. In spite of all the wounds, all the attacks of the enemy, I have never been able to give up on God, because He lives within me and I cannot still his voice. I cannot deny He is there. But, because I have not trusted Him with the handling of the wounds (faith)I have therefore not given God the permission to overide my will by chosing His will,(commitment)and thus I still walk this well beaten path around the mountain. In other words, there has not been the obedience from the heart like there should be. I may obey out of fear of the consequences, but not because I have committed my way to Him because I believe in His truth about how the wounds should be handled. And thus, relinquishment to God's will as an act of committed faith based on His truth is the only way to leave the mountain and enter into the land of milk and honey. I have been greatly affected by your writing, Sara, God is exercising His will here by way of the convicting voice of the Holy Spirit. I am deeply humbled. Write on,please. Your choice to write is a good one and can have great affect in the kingdom. Joe

Anonymous said...

Other thoughts after my walk in the woods.

Most of us, no, all of us in this world are seeking peace and satisfaction in life. Oh yeah, that's right, Jesus said that didn't He, "I have come that you might have life and life more abundantly". And the world's humanity has sought this in so many ways. In the church there are many divergent views on this subject. Some say,"Know the Word, exegete the Word, apply its principles, this is the way." Others say,"Be filled with the Spirit, speak in tongues, be Spirit filled, this is the way." Still others say," Say your rosary, do the catechisms, have a certain order of liturgy, this is the way". But none of these seem to be working do they.

It seems that Jesus pointed out the way.But it is not too inviting to my flesh. It is the way of the cross. As you think about our will and God's will, well, that is the sticky point for all of us isn't it. In fact it was the struggle for Jesus at Gethsemane,"Not my will be done, but thy will be done". I think that this is truly the way to this abundant life that we all seek, but struggle so much to find. Going back to what I was saying in my last comment,"And thus, relinquishment to God's will as an act of committed faith based on His truth is the only way to leave the mountain and enter into the land of milk and honey",is also the way to finally realize that resurrection power of the incarnate Christ living in and through us.

It occurs to me that it is at this point of choice, my will or thine, is also where satan fell. He didn't want God's way, even though he was truly glorius in heaven before being cast down. Thankfully, where the son of the morning failed, the Son of God did not. He chose, as the man, to follow the will of God. It looked like insanity. How many of you would die for some of those you know!?! But Jesus did not chose His will, but that of the Father's. And resurrection unto life occurred. Redemption and rescue occurred. Salvation occurred. I wonder if that is not true for us too.

Another thought. Although we are born with a fallen sin nature, I do think that we are essentially born with a heart or soul that is a blank slate. From the day I was born, two have been writing on that slate, mostly using people, but also though more direct ways.

God writes, " you are wonderfully made and my beautiful creation".

satan writes, " you are a piece of ugly crap, obviously a mistake".

God writes, " I have plans of a wonderful and succesful life for you".

satan writes, " you are a failure, your life is pointless and worthless".

Gods writes, "trust me, I will keep you safe, I will give you life".

satan writes, you can't trust God, your on your own, but here have a drink of this (be whatever it may be), this will give you life".

God writes, " I have come to save you, there is hope, I will not forsake you".

satan writes, " you have no hope, stupid, God doesn't care and nobody else does either. There is no hope".

And on and on it goes. We, I, must choose by an act of my free will, the will of God on any given point. Dutiful obedience to the jots and tittles will not get the job done. The pharisees proved that. It is only at the heart level that I must choose to interpret the writings of life on my soul. If God is true, if He is who He says He is, if it is true that His thoughts and intent for me is only good, then I have a choice to make. Will I believe Him from the heart and choose to handle life the way He says to handle it, or will I choose to believe the lies written on my soul. It seems that it is faithless fear that paralysis me. It truly does come down to a relinquishment of my own will, a dying of self, the way of the cross, the choice to walk His way that brings life abundantly.

thanks again, for stirring the pot, you write so well. Joe

Anonymous said...

Sara, beautifully expressed, and how true; you have a gift for writing, and it is so clear.I also used to think the good and bad come from God.But that's not His nature.It has taken me many years to come to understand He is always good, that we live in a fallen world and with our human will, bad things happen.Thanks,Sara, for what you've written.Teresa

Anonymous said...

beautiful, sara! your wrestling with the MOST HIGH certainly is becoming a blessing to all of us! :-) thank you, not only for taking on the challenge, but for allowing us to watch and learn from your own "open heart surgery". who knows but that you have been chosen for such a time as this....:-)

Justin Wallraven said...

Sarah,
These are interesting thoughts that I’ve been wrestling with as well. I’m leaning a different direction than you are on this.

I think the argument for free will often tends to center around the idea that of how a loving God could sovereignty ordain all the evil that we see around us. It doesn’t compute so we feel more comfortable blaming man rather than believing that God’s will includes the evil that we see. I think its right to blame man for evil but not so right to assume it’s not apart of God’s sovereign plan. We assume that the purposes of God are primarily about the redemption of a sinful mankind, but that’s not really true. Romans 9 leads me to believe that God ultimate desire is the display of his own glory and one of the ways He does that is through the redemption of SOME of mankind…and the destruction of others whom HE chooses (vs 22-23).

The problem is that if man can make the decisions contrary to the will of our God, then He is no longer sovereign unless He has somehow chosen to limit His sovereignty. Either way, He is no longer sovereign.

How/why would you pray to a God who is by and large a spectator? He’s either running the show or we are. If he has turned that power over to us on ANY level, why would we need Him? He would need us. How do we comfort ourselves when things go wrong in a world were man is in charge? You can’t tell yourself “God is in control” because he’s turned that job over to man. Collectively, the fate of the universe lies in mankind unless God intervenes and while it’s easy to say “Well, he does intervene…sometimes…when it’s important” how can you believe man has a free will in the face of a God who for some reason jumps in every now and then to trump it? If you can buy into that, is it really that big of a stretch to believe that God is sovereign in all things?

I choose to believe based on what I’ve seen in scripture that God is completely sovereign over everything that happens in this world. That He has not turned an ounce of His will over to the “free will” of mankind and that someday this confusing paradox will ultimately lead to a moment where we all see clearly that His glorious plan was set in place before time began and nothing could knock it off track and that we will all worship Him for it.

If for no other reason, I’d rather get to heaven falsely believing God was sovereignty in charge than falsely believing man was. ;)

Tell Gene I said hey. ;)